Transcript
WINSTON PETERS: I don't think it's been appreciated by the New Zealand population in general, and businesses in New Zealand specifically, just how important foreign affairs and trade are for this country's future, in all levels of it and in all regions of the world where we can possibly make progress. But none will be more important than our neighbourhood, the Pacific.
JOHNNY BLADES: Does the 'Pacific reset' simply come down to spending more of the aid budget in the Pacific coupled with listening more, engaging more and exhibiting friendship?
WP: Well it begins with that the relationship of donor / recipient needs to change to one of true partnership. And to do that we need to encourage the establishment of institutions and personnel and indeed politicians in the Pacific who understand that this is a step up time for all of us - New Zealand, Australia and them as well - because the big challenges require a better performance from us collectively.
JB: So one of those big issues of course is climate change, as we know, so how can New Zealand align its performance on that with what Pacific Islands countries want because it seems to be at odds? They would like this 2 degrees level (on global temperature rise) whereas New Zealand's aspirational level is different to their target.
WP: Well first of all, the new government has set renewed and far more aspirational targets than the former government, and has made it an absolute priority. So in that context we are going to be a sound model of what we're talking about, and in other fora around the world where the Pacific people can't be but we can, we can be legitimately - with their request and their agreement - a voice for them on this issue.And we need to bring in other countries from around the world as well to understand the plight of some Pacific nations where climate change is concerned, and to prepare policies now to mitigate or ameliorate possible deleterious circumstances arising from it. And that's a present, now situation.not something we can put off for next year or the year after. The Pacific action want action that they can believe in now.
JB: How will your government help the pacific to protect the ocean, the marine environment which is full of plastic which countries like ours are adding to?
WP: Well the first thing is, we've set out to join those countries in a campaign against that continuance, and in clearing up the Pacific and the oceans of the world. We've signed up to it, just recently. Second, we have to...back home here.. begin to ensure that the damage that plastic does is not as a consequence of our careless use of it, or failure to treat it properly in our country. Then when you go to the Pacific, there's a lot we could do by way of leadership. You go to some of the Pacific settings, you don't have to go to the ocean to see the plastic - it's in the creeks, it's everywhere. So there's a huge campaign that we have to be a part of, dare I say a leader of, in the Pacific to turn that sort of abuse of the environment around.
JB: You mentioned in your (Lowy Institute) speech New Zealand's clear ties with Polynesia which are well established. What about Melanesia? What can New Zealand do to help them confront some huge issues (such as) governance problems in Papua New Guinea and Solomon Islands?
WP: You're right, they've got huge problems. And average ages of seventeen, eighteen, nineteen years of age in the population. That's the kind of nightmare demand that Treasurers or Ministers of Finance have to wrestle with. What can we do? We can work better with Australia and other countries, the EU and indeed the UK, to ensure we can get better systems going there. But it all comes down to, in the end, the willingness of local politicians to play by the rules which we all have to play by.
JB: And we know that's a problem, isn't it, in PNG for instance?
WP: Well it is, but I think we must put more people on the road who are experienced politicians, and other politicians, to preach the word about accountability and transparency.
JB: I guess this is where I'd like to ask what the real difference is between the aid programme under you as Foreign Minister in relation to the (Murray) McCully era. Because of course there was that focus on economic development rather than poverty alleviation - in some ways they should be one and the same, shouldn't they? But really in Melanesia if it's all towards economic development, it's often propping up bad governance systems somehow, isn't it?
WP: Well I don't want to comment on individual cases in Melanesia, other than to say that we have a clear idea what the prescription should be, what the boundaries should be, what the limitations should be, and what the requirements should be to make a programme work. I was not opposed to the National Party's greater focus on economic outcomes, which was a change that they made. I always thought that there was a halfway house where that sound as well. But if you say a thing like that and demand to have a tender in an island for a contract when you know there's only one person there who can do the job, it is wasting good money on the tender process. There's only one person who can do the job, one company who can do the job, and the rest can't. So now the question comes down to what's a fair price, rather than going through a Wellington or Canberra exercise of tendering when there is no legitimate tendering capacity in a certain place. The big difference is, we're going to put far more money into it, so that the words we speak can be backed up. We're going to put our money where our mouth is, and not because we're wanting to be some generous nation, but because the investment is critical to New Zealand's own survival and our way of life. I can recall years when the previous government underspent its overseas aid by 92 million dollars. Now, that tells me they got up on budget day and said one thing, with no intention of spending the money in the first place. That's shorthand for deceit. In a Pacific basin where there was desperation everywhere, I don't think that's an honest way to go about things.
JB: Will there be more funding for NGOs and research groups?
WP: I believe there will be. I can't really be too premature here. But we are trying to ensure that we've got a budget that underscores the change in our approach, which is an investment in the Pacific region's wealth, its economic survival and our security. It's very much in New Zealand's interests. I know some New Zealanders think that we are maybe wasting money here. They are wrong. This gives us a persona internationally far bigger than the small country we are. Overseas countries look beyond us, look over our shoulders to see who is backing us. And if the people behind us are an assembly of Pacific nations who look kindly towards us, it makes us a much more important international player. Only then can you start claiming to be punching above your weight.
