RNZ's uncut interview show - 30' with Guyon Espiner - is back for a new series. In the latest episode, Donald Trump's former National Security Advisor John Bolton claims New Zealand is at risk if we continue our hard ban on nuclear technology.
Former White House National Security Advisor John Bolton said New Zealand "should recognise there's a difference between nuclear weapons and nuclear power - even on naval warships."
Bolton said nuclear technology had come a long way since nuclear disasters like the Chernobyl meltdown reinforced New Zealand's anti-nuclear stance.
"If you want to establish the taboo for nuclear weapons, okay, I get that, but for nuclear power itself, I just think it is a mistake."
Bolton served under the Reagan administration in the 1980s - when New Zealand, under David Lange's Labour government, banned nuclear-powered or nuclear-armed ships from entering New Zealand waters.
It strained diplomatic relations with the US, leading to a suspension of New Zealand's military obligations under the Australia, New Zealand and United States Security treaty (ANZUS).
Full defence cooperation was reestablished in 2012, but New Zealand's nuclear-free policy remained.
Bolton said that while he disagrees with the policy, the US has "learned to deal with it."
"If it didn't change, we'd still deal with it. It's not disqualifying as the potential interest in AUKUS. It hasn't affected our close relations."
AUKUS is a security alliance between Australia, the United Kingdom and the United States, announced in 2021 as a response to China's growing influence in the Indo-Pacific.
A major part of the agreement allows for Australia to acquire a fleet of nuclear-powered - but conventionally armed - submarines.
New Zealand's no-nukes stance effectively prevented participation in the alliance.
A potential AUKUS Pillar Two arrangement would not involve nuclear submarines, but progress on this is still at an early stage.
"But going forward in what I think is an increasingly dangerous world, I don't want to see New Zealand, however far away it is from other large bodies of land, I don't want to see it spun off on its own," Bolton said. "Because you'll simply be at greater risk."
"Personally, I wish you would join Pillar One too."
Bolton was the longest-serving of Donald Trump's four National Security Advisors, in the role for about 18 months. Photo: AFP
* 30 with Guyon Espiner comes out every week on RNZ, Youtube, TVNZ+ and wherever you get your podcasts.
Bolton, a life-long Republican strategist, served under the Reagan, Bush and Trump administrations.
He was National Security Advisor during the Trump presidency, before being fired by Trump via Twitter following disagreements on foreign policy.
"I think he's [Trump] done a lot of damage, certainly to the credibility of our institutions, people's faith in the system and the Constitution. And I think if he's elected to a second term, he'll do a lot more damage," he told RNZ's 30 with Guyon Espiner.
"He's not fit to be president, that's clear. And the damage he will do will cost us a lot to repair."
But he stopped short of following the lead of fellow Republicans in endorsing Democratic candidate Kamala Harris' bid for the White House.
"I'm not going to vote for either one of them. I don't think either one should be president."
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