Firefighters pour water on to the roof of the Loafers Lodge hostel, Newtown, Wellington on 16 May, 2023. Photo: RNZ / Angus Dreaver
If two of the country's largest fire trucks had got to the Loafers Lodge blaze, and sooner, they could have got more water on, says a senior firefighter.
But Fire and Emergency (FENZ) says it had all the specialist equipment it needed at Tuesday's fatal fire in Wellington, even though the second large-ladder truck could not make it.
"I can reassure you, Fire and Emergency had enough crews, and specialist appliances to respond to the Newtown fire," FENZ chief executive Kerry Gregory said in a news conference on Thursday.
But Gregory later said FENZ had "huge legacy issues" with its ageing fleet which would take years to fix.
"Until we can work through that process ... of what we've inherited, we're going to have some times when appliances don't make it on to the fire ground."
On Wednesday, RNZ revealed of the two largest trucks the Wellington region had, one was still off the road 469 days after freezing up at a house fire.
Gregory said firefighters, who at the worst blaze of their careers did a "phenomenal" job, did later raise "concerns" with him about the missing truck.
Operational reviews would look into that and the big picture was difficult, he said.
"We do, however, as I've said before, have challenges with ageing fleet. Twenty-seven percent of our appliances are beyond their target asset life of 20 to 25 years."
FENZ had bought more than 200 mostly smaller trucks since 2017, had $25 million a year for fleet maintenance and running - just four percent of its $600m levy income - and had orders in to get five new large-ladder trucks, possibly as soon as the end of next year, Gregory said.
But while it needed $2.9 billion over 20 years for capital upgrades, it was short of that by $900m, he said.
Gregory mostly deflected questions on whether the lack of a second 32m-ladder truck made a difference in fighting the Loafers Lodge fire.
Having two sizes of ladder truck there "allows different tactics to be deployed because they have different operations", he said.
However, firefighters spoken to by RNZ insist the larger one provided many more options.
Gregory noted the response time - that the first pump trucks and smaller 17m-long ladder truck got to the lodge fire in five minutes from Newtown fire station.
"When they arrived, it wasn't about the aerials, it was about making sure that we got people out of those buildings," he said.
However, one way of getting them out - off the roof - was a job that only the large 32m ladder could do, and accomplished for five residents who climbed into the ladder-cage, as flames climbed out of the fourth-floor windows and from underneath, eventually collapsing parts of the roof.
FENZ chief executive Kerry Gregory says FENZ has "huge legacy issues" with its ageing fleet which will take years to fix. Photo: RNZ / Samuel Rillstone
Pushback from command view
While Gregory said the fire got the "pre-determined response" required, a senior firefighter in the command centre at Loafers fire pushed back.
"No, it's not okay," said Ian Wright, who is also national president of the Professional Firefighters' Union.
"The best outcome would have been having two of those aerials there."
Wright witnessed the fire fight, though all the trucks were there by the time he got there from the Hutt.
The trucks which got there from Newtown in five minutes began getting water on to the fire, though the 17m ladder was not high enough to rescue anyone off the roof.
If the big 32m-ladder truck at Newtown had not been broken down, it could have been there in five minutes too.
The big ladder truck coming from across town in Thorndon got there after 14 minutes - nine minutes after the first trucks.
"Every minute you wait, the fire will grow to twice the size you know, will double again and again and again and again. For over nine minutes," Wright said.
Wright said he was not saying more lives could have been saved, but having two big trucks there would have given the crews a lot more options.
"They would have applied a lot more water efficiently, in a more directed way, to multiple areas of the building that were on fire, and would have been available for any rescues that might have been needed."
The 32m ladder could reach two sides of the building, extend over it and reach multiple windows, Wright said.
The smaller ladder was much more constrained, pouring water through "basically just one window" at the front, he said.
Because this ladder was at near maximum stretch, the steep angle meant the firefighter at the top with the hose could not climb up there, but had to be clipped in at the bottom then hoisted high. It could not rescue anyone like this.
Gregory said whenever crews arrived at a fire, "it is chaos", and determining how to deploy required a "real skill".
"Their initial actions ... was to make internal entry, and get as many people out as they like.
"They're not thinking about, 'where am I going to place my aerial appliances?'
"It's making the initial assessments, making sure we're keeping people safe, and making sure we're getting control on the fire ground."
The FENZ board is looking at options for plugging the $900m capital spend gap.
Emergency responders at Loafers Lodge, Adelaide Road, where fire broke out early Tuesday morning. Photo: RNZ / Denise Garland
