Transcript
RICHARD MARLES: I think sometimes, out of a well motivated sense of not wanting to be an overbearing colonial power, we might go about things with a light touch, but actually I think there is a huge desire within the Pacific for Australia to lead and play its part. And I think that when you look at New Zealand, there's a huge amount of thought that goes on in New Zealand around its role in the Pacific, it's very central to the identity of New Zealand, and it's very well received by the countries of the Pacific. In some respects I think we could take a leaf out of (New Zealand's) book and do the same. It's not in a sense that we don't commit resources in the Pacific, because we do. We're the largest provider of aid into the Pacific, we have the largest diplomatic footprint in the Pacific. We have huge defence co-operation programmes with those countries that have a military within the Pacific. But I do think there is an enormous amount of room for us to engage more in strategic thought about how we see the Pacific, and to encourage discussion among Pacific Island countries about how they see the future as well.
JOHNNY BLADES: Hasn't Australia lost some of that strategic leverage, I guess, through the fallout from the offshore refugee processing arrangements in PNG (Manus) and Nauru?
RM: Oh look, I think that can be overstated. In terms of Nauru, all that's occurred there has been done in co-operation with the Nauruan government, and it's had actually a big impact on the economy of Nauru. I think with PNG, it's an issue that needs to be managed properly; and the relationship with PNG, I've been critical of our current government at the moment about the way in which it's handled its relationship with PNG in respect of Manus. But I don't think at the end of the day it has a determining impact on the role Australia can play within the Pacific, and indeed the kind of role that the countries in the Pacific would like to see Australia play. And I think it's really important that we step up and take that role that is expected of us.
I think there's more that we can do in terms of working co-operatively with PNG going forward. One of the issues that I argued today is about building our defence co-operation relationship with the PNG Defence Force. Now it is very strong right now, in the sense that many in the officer corps of the PNG Defence Force have had their training in Australia. But I actually think there's a whole lot of ways in which we could further build upon that, and have an even more enhanced defence relationship with PNG.
JB: PNG, their defence force is in desperate need of a strong partnership to bolster it, and I suppose the other options for PNG include Indonesia, and they do have some links obviously.
RM: You know, the Pacific have choices, and we can't take for granted that we will be the partner of choice forever. The country that cares the most will be the country that has the most influence within the Pacific. It's really important that Australia makes it clear that we are that country. So that does require attention and effort, and it really does mean that the Pacific needs to be elevated to being a mainstream part of Australia's world view. And again I come back to what I said earlier, you can see that in New Zealand. It's really evident when you speak to Kiwis about how they see the world, their identity is being part of the Pacific, and the importance of the Pacific in their world view is manifest. We really can learn from that. And we need to learn from that. It's important that we see that in the same way... our relationship in the Pacific, what we do in the Pacific, is as important as our relationship with the United States, it's as important as our relationship with China.
JB: As Jonathan Pryke (and Leon Berkelmans) in a Lowy Institute paper put it, opening up greater access to Australia's labour market for Pacific Islanders would be a way to help more. Would it?
RM: I think that is an important area of thought that we need to engage in, bearing in mind that of course the seasonal worker - which again is policy that we learnt from (New Zealand) - has had an important benefit for people in the Pacific, as it has I might say for people in the agriculture sector within Australia. I think this is an area that needs to be looked at. We've taken the first steps in that area; it obviously needs to be thought through and worked out in detail. But that is a critical part of how we can build the relationship.
JB: You suggested that Australia could think of itself more as such as a part of the Pacific Islands region, because geographically it is part of the Pacific, but does the Australian public feel that way?
RM: Yeah, I think that's a really good question. Look I think at times, and certainly at times in the past, that's been the case. We've got deep history in the region. But we can do more, and I think the media has a role to play here. I think those of us who are passionate have a role to play in terms of making that case. But when you go to Auckland, when you go to New Zealand, you see the way in which New Zealand feels deeply rooted within the Pacific. We do actually have a way to go, and it's important that we do that, because we are. This is the part of the world in which we belong and which we are part of. This is the part of the world where both those within it expect to see us leading, and those without it expect to see us leading.
