Transcript
Reverend James Bhagwan: Where leaders have expressed their solidarity with the people of Papua. And, you know, said that this has been going on for too long, and that we need to start working towards resolutions on the issue. This is just another very sad example of how serious the situation is in Papua and for West Papuans within Indonesia.
Johnny Blades: The Pacific Conference of Churches has been voicing concern about what's happening in Papua for years. But of course, yourself and a colleague also visited Papua earlier this year as part of a World Council of Churches team. What did you feel about how Papuans are faring under the current Indonesian rule?
Reverend James Bhagwan: It's very clear that there is you know that there is some sort of structural violence or institutional programme to undermine even the Special Autonomy Law that is currently existing for the governance of Tanah Papua. We heard the frustrations of the Governor from Papua. We listened to the people and heard stories of the ongoing human rights violations by Indonesian security forces in power we, we saw the economic disparity, the social disparity, and you know, these are all part of covenants that the Indonesian government has signed. And really all we're saying is, was a country that is sitting on the UN Security Council, that is vying now for a place on the Human Rights Council needs to live up to the ideals that they are going to espouse on these positions, you know, in these councils, and do right by the people of Papua.
Johnny Blades: Indonesia's government is very sensitive about West Papua. What would you say about that?
Reverend James Bhagwan: The government of Indonesia, obviously, will never engage in a conversation that has to do with the sovereignty of West before. We understand that, despite our own views on that issue. But the reality is, if they consider West Papua and West Papuans to be full Indonesian citizens, then they need to be treating them that way. And they should be open to the UN Human Rights Commission sending in a team to the those UN mandates that exist to come in and go on the ground and see what is happening, to open up Papua to to international journalists, to allow more visitors to come in. And that is only going to help the the condition of our sisters and brothers who are struggling in Papua to have dignity, you know, very basic dignity, which is their inalienable right.
Johnny Blades: The incidents in Surabaya and some other Javanese cities involving Papuan students, what do you make of the response by Indonesian authorities to those incidents?
Reverend James Bhagwan: Well, it's very clear from video and photographic evidence and from news from on the ground that they had been complicit in these things. While the Indonesian President has called for forgiveness... forgiveness has not been asked for, neither has an apology being made. And so, you know, it's very easy to be one sided on this and call for peace and call for calm. But if you don't address the real issue itself... and this is another example to show that Indonesia, Javanese, the others do not see Papuans as part of Indonesia, it actually adds to make the case for self determination of the West Papua people as a Melanesian people.
Johnny Blades: What really is required from the involved governments?
Reverend James Bhagwan: Well, right now, Indonesia has to open the doors to the UN, it needs to take the band aid off this issue and get right down to allowing the Human Rights people to come in. And then this is for Indonesia's own international credibility as well. You know, they need to start having some serious conversations, the special autonomy law (in Papua) isn't going to last forever, it's going to finish in the next couple of years. And then they're going to have to renegotiate this with the people. Is that when they're going to come and ask for forgiveness? And if you continue to marginalise people, if you continue to push them into a corner and be relentless with the oppression, sooner or later it's going to break out in a much bigger way. You only have to look at the Israel Palestine conflict and others where it has been in that sense, and it's been long and protracted and it gets to, you know, a really bad place and then all negotiations break down and there's no hope for a solution and hope for peace slips out the door. So they need to address this now and they need to... President Widodo, who is now in the second term, you know, he needs to use his political capital. He needs to use his power as president to take on this as a serious issue and help the Indonesian people also take on the issue.
