Transcript
When was the first time you performed a Shihad song acoustically?
Probably for Radio New Zealand
So it would have been Andre Upston, in the Helen Young studio?
It was the Helen Young sessions.
In Auckland? That was a Pacifier session?
Yes it was, and in fact that might not be completely correct because we’d had to learn how to do some of those songs on acoustic guitars because - as anyone who’s toured around the States knows - you go on to every radio station that would have you, and the only way they would have you was if you’d play acoustically.
And as we learn from the documentary, as stipulated by your record company there was going to be a point in a Shihad set where you would come out front and be the lone Shihad guy performing.
Yeah, which is extremely uncomfortable when you’ve got three other musician sitting around waiting for you to finish.
I personally don’t think that’s the right way to do it. When I go out solo, it’s about me, the song, and the people in the room and that communication that goes on between us, and also me getting lost in the music that I love. That’s why I do the music - those moments of transcendence.
I get it in Shihad, but it’s a different sort of transcendence. It’s a big powerful thing that’s happening between four people, whereas in the solo show it’s happening between myself and the material. I get a buzz out of that - it’s more of a raw, naked, transcendence.
Are there songs that you’ve written that have revealed themselves to you in a way that they haven’t before, through performing them acoustically?
Absolutely, and I think doing that Revolution show I had to try another couple that I hadn’t done before. One was ‘Waiting round for God’ off the Beautiful Machine album, which I was very very proud of when I wrote, but doing it just by itself it’s sorta got a new meaning, especially with what’s going on in the world. Also ‘The Great Divide’ off FVEY which I always thought, when I first wrote it, “well that’s actually quite a beautiful melody” and I really believe what I’m talking about here”, and it’s literally dealing with the growing divide between rich and poor.
So for me it’s really relevant and like I say there’s a beautiful song in there, but the way Jaz Coleman produced it purposely kneecapped it - in a good way, in a cool way.
He saw how pretty that song was and said “cool, now let’s make it really really heavy”. Luckily, he got me on a day where I was like “ok I’m not going to be so precious about this”. If that’s what the producer thinks, then that’s the right idea, and I’m glad he did because the version on the album’s fantastic, and it’s a real, physical, visceral thrill to play live. But when you deconstruct it it’s like “wow there’s this beautiful song in there”.
With your back catalogue being as extensive as it is now, what decides whether a song is or isn’t on the table? Is it about fitting a narrative for a show? Is it about whether it can even be performed acoustically?
Absolutely, it’s gotta be a song that I connect with on a lyrical and musical level, but one that’s a gonna work on that instrument or that arrangement. There are some songs like ‘Home Again’ that I thought would be impossible to play on an acoustic guitar, so I never bothered to do it.
We wrote it in a small divey practice room in the San Fernando valley, outside of Hollywood in L.A., and it was literally a jam with two separate guitar parts. That was the magic of it for me, so I always think of it as two separate guitar parts. I’ve finally learned how to play it and it’s actually really fun. I literally have to play two guitar parts on one guitar. Just doing that process has made me go “oh, I can actually attack any song in my back catalogue”.
Could you perform Derail?
I could. Would it keep someone’s interest for five minutes? I’m not sure…
Could you perform Deb’s Night Out?
I think I could, you can do that with anything as long as you basically work out what the main musical theme is. Can you perform it on a guitar? then it’s up to you to bring it up and down with the way you play. But it is actually all about learning those basic rules like “If you want something to sound big, you’ve gotta be quiet beforehand” and I sorta learned it over time.
I’ve learned it from working with people like Shayne Carter from Dimmer, whose first album, I Believe you are a Star, is all about being as quiet as possible to be as powerful as possible. You always want to be that V8, but sometimes you want to be the sound of that V8 waiting at the lights, ready to go.
Not calling this upcoming tour ‘The General Acoustic’ is a missed opportunity.
(laughs) Yeah right, actually it is a missed opportunity. If I do another one I’ll definitely keep that in the books. I just don’t even think of it. I just go, hey, I just want to go play some shows, where’s some good venues? I’m gonna bring my guitar, and I’ll bring a backup guitar because I play like a munter and I break strings even if I’m on an acoustic guitar.
For me, I love the fact that I finally get to be a human being rather than this monster, rock n roll P.T. instructor, which is what I am (and I love it) in Shihad. I love conjuring up that energy and getting a crowd to bounce all in time and then not letting them off the hook - as soon as that song’s finished I’m on to the next one. I love that, but I never get a chance to go “I’m playing this song because it means this to me, and when I wrote it this was happening in my life”, and there's a power to that, and I think I have to be the age I am to do that, I don’t think I could have done that 20 years ago.
Would the Jon Toogood of 20 years ago have poo pooed the idea of Shihad songs rendered acoustic?
I think, purely out of insecurity and chicken shittedness - not wanting to put myself in an uncomfortable situation, whereas the Jon Toogood of the last six years loves being put in an uncomfortable situation, where you don’t know whether it’s going to work or not. And that’s the thrill - it’s like man, is this going to work? When you first play a bunch of news songs to people - as much as you’re frightened - when it does work you feel way more validated than playing a song that you’ve been playing for the last 15 years.
Yeah, I like going “mmm I feel a bit naked here.”
