"People were fascinated, people were deeply interested, people were deeply moved by the killing of Grace Millane. They wanted to know and they had a right to know. And I don't think they were being exploitative and I don't think they were being exploited. I think we just wanted to know."
While it's a "bit garish" when a high-profile murder trial gets blanket media coverage, the public appetite for this information is natural, says writer Steve Braunias.
With "extra affection", Braunias has written his third book of New Zealand true-crime narratives - Survivors: Stories of Death and Desperation. He tells Emile Donovan why it will also be his last.
For years, Braunias has sat, fascinated, through randomly chosen high court trials.
"I'll march down to the High Court of Auckland and just see what's on the court list. I go 'I wonder what that's about, and I'll go up and sit there and listen to it'.
"In a recess, I will take a prosecutor aside or a defense lawyer aside, and say 'Can you tell me what this is about?' If it sounds interesting - and a lot of the time it is - then I will stay. "
When Braunias, now 64, found himself judging the people accused of the crimes, he took that as a sign that he was "losing balance".
"That sort of cosy, observational distance that I was maintaining very easily quite abruptly finished.
"I was becoming an unhappy figure in court and I'd never previously been that. I loved attending court trials. Felt really at home, very calm. It was a beautiful way to observe people in times of crisis, but I think I started crossing that line and was judging people and feeling almost quite bitter about it."
The reality though, Braunias knows, is that every person is capable of committing a horrendous yet momentary act under "intolerable pressures".
"We try and keep it within sort of a civilized code. But for some people, their character and their circumstances are such that they… they lost it and they make a hell of a lot of people suffer."
The longest story in The Survivors, Braunias says, is "a really curious" murder trial nicknamed by a prosecutor as The Case of the Innocent Agent.
The 'Innocent Agent' is an ancient legal principle which hadn't been invoked in New Zealand since the 1960s.
It denotes a person who is powerless - usually either a child or someone with a low IQ - and instructed by another to perform an illegal act.
"The innocent agent basically does not exist. He is kind of like a tool. He is like a faithful dog, an obedient servant."
In this case, intellectually disabled Auckland man Steven Ewart was deemed to be one.
While trying to burn a Mount Roskill house down in 2018, Ewart spilt petrol all over himself and died in considerable agony.
The person who instructed him to attempt arson - a young woman named Isabella Niki-Harper Ahlawat - was jailed for Ewart's manslaughter.
"If he had been successful and someone had died who lived in that house, Ewart would not have been held responsible. the person who instructed him would have been charged with that murder."