How did residents of Aotearoa New Zealand come to be called by the name of a flightless brown bird and a hairy fruit from China?
It's a question cultural historian Richard Wolfe has set out to answer in his latest book, Kiwi: A Curious Case of National Identity.
He explores the kiwi's natural history and its early use in brand names, trademarks and symbols.
He also looks at its particular association with the military - and the connection to a boot polish that originated in Australia.
So when did we start to attribute particular values and traits to being 'Kiwi'?
And how did the Chinese gooseberry end up as 'kiwifruit' - something Queen Elizabeth once admitted was her favourite fruit?
Richard Wolfe joins Kathryn to explain what he found.