Lobbyists: What do they do and why the bad rep?

When the term lobbyist is used in political reporting it is usually negative. You might even get the idea that the parliamentary precinct is awash with them, greasing the wheels for their clients and whispering sweet nothings in the ears of ministers.

I was keen to find out what they do, so I met with two; both former ministerial staffers and arguably from the 'modernising' end of approaches to lobbying.  

Holly Bennett is the founder of Awhi, which she describes as a kaupapa Māori lobbying firm. You might have noticed her in the media calling for lobbyists to have a code of conduct, a public register and an oversight body.

Talani Meikle is a director at GRC Partners and Porter Novelli. Their website describes a wide array of services, but rather than the term lobbying opts for descriptors like government relations and public policy advice. 

Do you call yourself lobbyists?

Talani Meikle 

"There are various names and titles for what we do. We would describe ourselves at GRC/PN as an integrated consultancy firm. So we do government relations, we do PR, we do media relations." 

Holly Bennett

"I would say I'm a lobbyist first and foremost... When I think about the term lobbyist, I made a distinct decision to lean into the word lobbyist, because it's just a word. We shouldn't be afraid of it. It's actually about what you do and how you do it."

Why does lobbying exist anyway?

Holly Bennett

"It just means that I translate all of the stuff that happens in Parliament, in and around politics and media for people who don't really live in the world that I do... The level of civics and understanding of people's own democracy in this country is wildly below where it should be."

Talani Meikle

"A lot of our clients, quite frankly, are just absolutely mystified about Wellington. When they try to navigate Wellington and its various layers, they just get very confused. So our role, similar to what Holly has described, is to translate the complexities of Wellington for our clients."

What does that mean, practically?

Holly Bennett

"We spend a lot of time reading. We read what politicians say. We read what submissions are going in. They might have counterpoints on those we represent. We do a lot of time listening to different media, different post-Cabinet press conferences. It's all of these kind of things, because one of the most powerful tools in politics is words, right? ‘He mana tō te kupu’ – words have power. When you think about legislation, it's just written word on a piece of paper that directs what we can and can't do."

Talani Meikle

"We also spend a lot of time reading and analysing the words - what's coming out, what are the messages? What can we take from those messages, and how can they help our clients to understand the government's perspective on certain issues? ...

"A lot of what we do sometimes can be as mundane as helping our clients to, you know, address a minister or an opposition MP in the correct and appropriate way, all the way through to very complex analysis of legislation or bills coming before the House and everything in between. So being in the ear of an MP or a minister doesn't really fit in our day-to-day work at all."

What is not lobbying?

Holly Bennett

"If [lobbyists] tell you it's to meet and greet and do all that stuff, then I would say, ‘Okay, cool, but what value do you provide to your client?’ Because that's not value. Anyone can do that. And actually, I would argue that that's fundamentally one of the parts of a politician's role – is to meet their people."

Talani Meikle

"I would add to that, Holly, that in New Zealand, we have quite open access to our politicians in such a way that isn't the norm in other countries. So I would agree with you, we're not the meetings department. You know, I say that a lot at my job... 

"I think lobbying is probably not the cliched or conspiratorial version of what you might perhaps see in the media sometimes or in movies."

On meeting ministers

Talani Meikle

"Of course, we help to facilitate meetings from time to time. That's part of the overall suite of things that we do. But it's not the be-all and end -all. There has to be value, not only on the advice that we provide, but what that enables our clients to then do; how they engage, who they engage with, why they engage at that level, with that person or department or politician."

On helping with Select Committee submissions

Holly Bennett

"I mean, knowing what to say when you're in the room, it's just as important as getting in the room in the first place. So I would say that that's the inherent value."

On accessing lobbying

Holly Bennett

"There's no right or wrong way necessarily, to do these things, and all practitioners will give you different ways to do it, but it's knowing that the advice is there in the first place, and that is one of the biggest challenges - you see people who do know how this world works, they're happy to reach out for the advice. And then we have a very slant towards a certain part of society that uses it, and then the vast majority do not."

Why the negative reputation for lobbyists?

Talani Meikle

"I think that there has been some poor practice in the past, and that gets a lot of media attention, but it does somewhat of a disservice to the rest... Having a best practice standard in terms of our own conduct, our ethics, what we are prepared and not prepared to do, is really important, and it's an important benchmark for us as an industry that we shouldn't be shying away from. There's nothing to be frightened of in terms of best practice and lobbying, it's something that we should be embracing."

Holly Bennett

"Let me put it this way. You currently have three active lobbyists... who are on government-appointed advisory committees to point the direction of the way in which policy is being created. That is not inherently problematic. What is inherently problematic with that is that we don't know who their clients are. You tell me if that makes sense. Doesn't make sense to me. I don't feel comfortable knowing that there's people with a client book that we can't see who are actively being appointed by ministers of the Crown to be there to advise how policy is going to manifest."

Holly Bennett

"When people are skeptical about what you do and how you do it, the answer is not to say, ‘Oh, just trust us’. ... And that's the problem that you have in the industry right now... is that the public has very clear questions that they'd like to ask about our industry and what we do... No one's committing to saying, ‘This is what it looks like. This is who I represent.'" 

So, who do you represent?

Holly Bennett

"My client book is live, anyone can see it anytime... And if you are not going to be publicly named on our website, you are not the right client for us. If you cannot agree to it in our terms, because that's what every client has to sign to, then we're not the right firm. And that's okay for people to have different choices, but I would like them to have the choice, because ultimately, this is my firm, and I run it how I want to run it."

Talani Meikle

"We're pretty open about who we work for, too. And you can jump on our website and have a look. I think there are certainly some commercial sensitivities around some of our clients and you know, we have to take that into consideration. But if you have an inherent problem discussing who you're working for, then there's another conversation perhaps to be had...

The other thing that I would say just on that point is that the alignment of values between your own organisation, your own firm, and your clients, is also something that's really important. It's important for us. Sometimes there is not an alignment with some of the clients, and you make a conscious and deliberate decision not to work with some clients based on that misalignment." 

Final comments

Talani Meikle

"Can I just say I really love my job. I love what I do. I love GRC/PN, I love our people, our kaupapa, our values, what drives us. We have an exceptional group of people. I love being in a senior leadership role with that team, and the clients that we work with are just exceptional people, and to be able to add value to their business objectives, their philanthropic objectives; it actually is what gets me out of bed in the morning, and I have to say it's a lot better than working in this place." [Both laugh]

Holly Bennett

"Absolutely, yeah, I totally agree with everything that you just said. I'm so proud of what I do. I've got no problem with anyone shining a spotlight on myself, just like you. I've got no problem with that, and I love what I do. I just hope that together, alongside Talani and a few others, that we can help create this as a space where new practitioners can come in and we can have actually a truly competitive industry. That's, I think, what we're probably missing right now."

Related links

• Official notes on a Ministry of Justice meetings in 2023 with Lobbyists about a code of conduct 
• From 2024, notes from a feedback meeting with a now watered-down, voluntary code of conduct 
• Nine to Noon Interview with Transparency International about a watered down code of conduct
• Investigative reporting from RNZ’s Guyon Espiner on lobbying. 
• A failed Members Bill from 2013 that sought to regulate lobbying in New Zealand
• Awhi's website and GRC+Porter Novelli's website

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