Christopher Luxon said he had not had an "explicit conversation" with the Children's Minister about restraint measures available to boot camp staff. Photo: RNZ/Marika Khabazi
The Prime Minister says physical force will be used only as "a last resort" against youth boot camp offenders.
Cabinet has signed off on those running the boot camps using force to protect themselves or others, or stop them escaping.
RNZ has now seen a leaked Cabinet paper that states this change "may be viewed as increasing the potential risk of abuse in custody, particularly in light of historic abuse experienced by children and young people in similar programmes".
Asked if he had given boot camp staff the ability to use force this morning, Christopher Luxon told Newstalk ZB: "It's not something I've been briefed on, it's not something that I'm aware of, it's not something that I should be involved in."
Just a few hours later, Luxon changed tack, telling reporters he had not had an "explicit conversation" with the Children's Minister Karen Chhour.
"I know it was referenced in a Cabinet paper, I get that, but what I'm saying is, I didn't have an exact conversation with her about how restraint is actually used operationally."
Asked if he was not across all Cabinet decisions, Luxon said: "I'm pretty much across everything."
Karen Chhour Photo: RNZ / Samuel Rillstone
Chhour later was asked if she had provided the prime minister with enough information, given his claim he had not been briefed on it.
"The Cabinet paper was agreed to, so I assume that if Cabinet's agreeing to the paper then there's enough advice in that paper ... I can't comment to what the prime minister says."
She would not comment on whether the leak was being investigated, but did say that any leak "is unacceptable and that is something that I don't see as okay".
She said the change was about ensuring safety of those in the programme, and the power to restrain would be accompanied by training and other safeguards.
"We take risks every day in our lives, but what we need to do is mitigate those risks and actually discuss those risks. If we don't discuss them we can't address them and we can't make sure we're actually doing the right thing.
"There will be a strict process that they'll have to go through to be able to run these academies in the future. They'll have to be a certain provider with certain statutory obligations and some of them are already meeting those statutory obligations, and the training will be provided to make sure that everybody has the same level."
Luxon went on to say the use of physical force against youth offenders at boot camps would only be used when necessary.
"They're used as a last resort and the reality of the situation is that we have serious young offenders... who will get themselves into situations that do require restraint.
"That's got to be used under very, very strict guidelines. But a lot of our focus needs to be, and needs to continue to be, that we've got the right protection, the right safeguarding."
The leaked Cabinet paper explicitly warned appropriate safeguards were not in place, with the power to use force held by individuals and organisations not attached to places of detention.
"In New Zealand, only law enforcement personnel currently hold such powers. Due to the time available, comprehensive safeguards are not outlined in the primary legislation," it said.
Labour leader Chris Hipkins said it was concerning the prime minister had not at first seemed to be aware of the decision.
"I'm really concerned that the government seem to be broadening the scope for the use of force against young people, without fully understanding what it is that they're doing, without actually putting appropriate checks and balances in place to ensure that it doesn't lead to further abuse of people who are in state care," Hipkins said.
"The fact that the prime minister didn't even seem to be aware that they'd made that decision is really alarming ... he doesn't seem to be following closely the decisions that his ministers are making and doesn't seem to be folloowing closely the advice that his ministers are providing to Cabinet - because he can't answer questions on it when issues arise."
He pointed to an apparent lack of knowledge by the prime minister around the extension of the use of force in care; allegations around children being left unaccompanied during a police raid; the advice provided to Casey Costello around Smokefree; and the health system.
"I don't think that's a sign of a prime minister who really is making an effort to understand the decisions that his ministers are making.
Photo: RNZ / Samuel Rillstone
The Greens' justice spokesperson Tamatha Paul said it was an alarming situation, where the government risked repeating lessons already learned.
"This is a document that shows eerie similarities to boot camps of the past that have happened in Aotearoa, and the result of those boot camps have often been at a minimum just failure of the programme, but at a more extreme end, some of those boot camps were where horrendous abuse was endured."
Paul was referencing past programmes like Te Whakapariki on Great Barrier Island, where children and young people were subjected to physical, psychological and sexual violence.
The government is set to make a formal public apology for abuse in care, including in youth boot camp settings, next Tuesday.
Legislation setting up the government's military-style academics will be introduced to the House later this year.
'Unacceptable' - Te Pāti Māori
Te Pāti Māori co-leader Rawiri Waititi said it was hypocritical of the government.
"Those kids are in there maybe because of abuse in their own homes, and then we're going to say 'well you can ship them off to state care where they're abused again, using force and using violence to control these tamariki who have been damaged by the system," he said.
"This country prides itself on its democracy but this is hypocrisy where it's okay for the state to abuse our kids, it's okay for the state to abuse people in its care, and it's just unacceptable. It's unacceptable and it's disgusting and this is what we're seeing out of this government.
"It's just got to stop and we've got to hold this to account, and this government, not 'must do better', but this government's got to cut it out, just cut this stuff out and start working towards working with communities, putting the resources into those communities for them to be able to do better."
He said families and iwi wanted to know how safe their children would be in the government's boot camps.
"That's what whānau want to know, is how safe are their tamariki in these boot camps - because they haven't worked in the past."
