Former Health Minister Andrew Little Photo: RNZ / Cole Eastham-Farrelly
The former minister responsible for the GCSB, Andrew Little, admits it may never be known whether a foreign spy operation run out of New Zealand's security bureau was supporting military action against another country.
The Inspector General of Intelligence and Security revealed its existence on Thursday, noting the system operated for seven years until 2020 and had the potential to be used to support military action against targets.
Yet in 2012, the GCSB signed up to the agreement without telling the-then director-general and let the system operate without safeguards including adequate training, record-keeping or auditing.
When Little found out about it he was concerned whether the operation was consistent with the legislation which had taken effect in 2017 and provided much tighter constraints and greater oversight of the spy agencies.
He supported it being referred to the Inspector General of Intelligence and Security for investigation.
Little refused to say if he believed the covert operation was run by the United States although it was likely to be one of New Zealand's Five Eyes partners.
The report was inconclusive on whether the operation could have been used for military purposes, possibly different from New Zealand's foreign policy at the time.
Little did not comment further on this aspect.
Much of the detail in the report is classified so it was unlikely much of the information would be released "any time soon".
It was impossible to know the level of the person or people who set up and ran the operation, in part because of the classified material in the report but also because of staff changes at the GCSB, he told Morning Report.
"What is clear ... [now is] they have a much different attitude both to ensuring compliance with its legal obligations but also responsiveness to a minister with oversight."
He gave credit to the previous National government who commissioned a review of the intelligence agencies, introduced new legislation and also "beefed up" the powers of the Inspector General.
"The culture of the role of the Inspector General now is a much stronger one and dealt with more respectfully by the agencies. ... We have a different set of standards in place now than perhaps was the case 12 or 13 years ago."
Under the current legislation, there was much greater oversight of the GCSB, it disclosed information to him as minister, showed compliance to its statutory obligations and respected the need for ministerial oversight.
"The level of disclosure to me was very high ... I was assured during my time as minister that I was being kept well informed... I was listened to very carefully."
He expected the prime minister and the Minister in charge of the GCSB Judith Collins would be able to read an unclassified version.
Collins declined to be interviewed this morning, as did the GCSB.
RNZ approached the former director-generals at the time this occurred, including Simon Murdoch, Ian Fletcher and Sir Bruce Ferguson.
The report says Sir Bruce had no problem with the proposal. He declined to be interviewed, but said the GCSB asked him two weeks ago to sign a non-disclosure order, saying he wouldn't talk about the report. He says he refused to sign.
Greens want questions answered
Teanau Tuiono Photo: VNP / Daniela Maoate-Cox
The Green Party says it's imperative the public is told whether the GCSB's hosting of a foreign spy operation led to any military action.
While the report said the risk it led to military action was lessened by the geographical limits of GCSB data collection, the Greens' national security and intelligence spokesperson Teanau Tuiono said that was not good enough.
"We need to have assurances this didn't lead to any military action anywhere else and we need to be thorough about this. If they've been doing this for seven years what else have they been up to? What have they put in place to ensure this doesn't happen again and how did we end up in this situation?
"These are important questions that need to be answered."
Tuiono said it was concerning GCSB was able to host the operation without ministerial oversight.
