The House: Leading in opposition and building an alternative government

MMP changed many aspects of how Parliament works, but the two-party system never entirely left.

One vestige of the pre-MMP era is the term 'leader of the opposition'. It suggests that Chris Hipkins, leader of the Labour Party, also holds sway over the Green Party and Te Pāti Māori. That would be news to them.

So why does the term still exist, and what does any opposition leader do with their time, now that they're not running the country? Here are moments from The House's radio interview with Chris Hipkins.

Leader of the opposition

Hipkins points out that MMP changed many things but not the underlying nature of Parliament.

"We still have an adversarial parliamentary system, so we still sit opposite one another in the parliamentary debating chamber, and typically speaking, the leader of the government is going to be the leader of the largest party, and the leader of the opposition is going to be the leader of the largest non-governing party."

He points out the one exception to that rule in the previous century was in 2017, when Labour formed a government despite having fewer MPs than National. "You know, that's one of the possibilities of MMP."

The official title does still have formal roles though, be they constitutional, ceremonial or legal.

"You are part of the constitutional framework of the country in terms of continuity of government. So the government is continuous, but where the government is having to deal with issues that relate to a previous government, for example, release of information that relates to a previous government, then we still, as the opposition, have a constitutional role in that process."

There is also an expectation that the opposition be represented at various ceremonial or state occasions. The leader of the opposition has legally stipulated functions.

"There are a variety of different provisions in law that invite me to nominate people for different positions and so on. In some cases, I can just nominate them. In other cases, I need to consult with the other non-governing parties before I can nominate somebody.

"But at the end of the day, someone has to do that. So, if you want to have some balance in the Parliament, then the leader of the largest non-governing party is the logical person to be the lead on that process. Hence the title leader of the opposition."

I ask Hipkins whether we use the term His Majesty's Loyal Opposition in New Zealand. He laughs.

"The National Party tend to use that a bit more. There's a few more monarchists, I think, on that side of the aisle than there are on our side of the aisle.

"I describe myself as a reluctant republican; in theory I like the idea of a republic, in practice I actually think the monarchy works quite well for New Zealand ... One day [a republic] will hopefully happen, but I also don't see any pressing need for it to happen. And so yeah, we are technically, you know, His Majesty's Loyal Opposition."

Coordinating with the other opposition parties (never leading) is done by Labour's whips and the shadow leader of the house, Hipkins says.

"Opposition parties will coordinate with one another on an informal basis, on a regular basis. When we were last in opposition, I was the opposition chief whip, and you know that one of your jobs is really to be on top of what the other parties are doing.

"So are they supporting the government or opposing the government on different pieces of legislation? Are we voting together? Are we coordinating, or are we not? Because there'll be instances where we're not, we're taking different positions; but the whips and the shadow leader of the house will play a key role in pulling that together."

The leader's typical week

People mostly see Hipkins in the media speaking for Labour, or in Parliament's Question Time, when he questions the prime minister. But that leaves a lot of time for... what exactly? He runs through his week for me.

"I'll typically be here on a Monday, doing internal [party] stuff, plus also the prime minister does his post-cabinet press conference [where] whatever the government's big announcement is for the week will be announced on a Monday. And so I'm there to respond to that.

"On a Tuesday and a Wednesday, I'm normally here at Parliament. I'm in the house on those days. On a Thursday and a Friday, I'll normally be out and about, either locally or around the country, and often a combination of both of those things."

When I ask for specifics of that public work he rattles off a list of engagements and speeches at events and conferences he has over the next few days. He adds that across the weekends there are always a lot of community events of various kinds to attend, to participate in or to speak at.

It is not unlike the work of a busy electorate MP, but on a larger scale and across the country. Of course, he also adds his own electorate work to that pile.

"One of the things about not being prime minister is I get to do a little bit more of that [electorate work], not as much as I used to do, because I still have to balance that out with the importance of attending big national events as well, around the country."

Leading the party

I ask Chris Hipkins to what extent his role as party leader is leading the team, the people, since being an opposition MP requires a different skill set to being a minister or governing-party backbencher.

"We have a team of MPs who haven't experienced opposition before ... Many of them had come in during that time we were in government, so that was all they knew. And so, as leader ... you have to help them make that transition to being an opposition MP. It's an entirely different job to being in government, and you have to provide direction and focus to that work. So that's, you know, one of the many components of this job."

Hipkins notes that the switchover requires retraining people.

"You have to point them in the right direction. You have to help people when they're on a roll. You have to help people if they're struggling to get on a roll. And you also want to make sure the team is cohesive and working together, and really shaping the team into a viable alternative government.

"I do think that a big part of the thing that people look at when they make their decisions about how to vote is, 'do they look like they're ready? Do they look like they'd be a good government?' And so part of the job of leader of the opposition is to make sure that the answer to that question is yes, we are ready and we will be a good government."

I comment that it has always seemed, watching from the sidelines, that it might be easier to create a cohesive team in opposition than in government. For a party in government, half the MPs are ministers and therefore both physically separate and too busy to engage, while the backbenchers have very little to do at all. In opposition, everyone is more equal and has more time to contribute. Hipkins doesn't entirely agree.

"Time in opposition can be a blessing and a curse. It gives you more opportunity to think about ideas, to get out and speak to people; but it also creates more opportunity for distraction. So if you look at oppositions past, they've often ended up arguing with each other rather than arguing with the people who sit on the other side of the debating chamber.

"I'm really proud of the fact that our team has avoided that. We are very much focused on arguing with the government, and I think we've still got an amazingly cohesive sense of teamwork here. If anything, it's grown since we went from government to opposition, and that's pretty unusual in a new opposition. Normally, oppositions will go through a period of fighting with each other rather than fighting the government. Our team hasn't done that and isn't going to do that. We're pretty resolved about that."

There is truth to that. Election losses sometimes create leadership feeding frenzies, with leaks and infighting. Even without infighting, new oppositions can be mired in the stages of grief.

"We haven't done that. And I think that's a tribute to our team. You know, we're pretty focused on making this a one-term government, and that means we've got not one day to lose. We haven't got time for that, and we're not interested in doing that."

Policy development as preparation for government

If opposition is partly about building policy ideas for the next government, how is that done and who is involved?

"In opposition everybody has a role in policy development. Spokespeople will take the lead in their areas. They'll be working with committees of volunteers within the party who have an interest in that, who want to contribute ideas, and in some cases, bring a lot of expertise to that process.

"That's really valuable for you in opposition, because unlike in government, where you've got the whole of the public service who can bring you the expertise and perspectives that you might need, you don't have that in opposition. So you do rely a lot more on those volunteer networks.

"In some cases, some of those volunteers aren't always party members, either. They're people who care deeply about an issue, who will say 'I'm happy to put my hand up and give you a bit of a hand to pull some ideas together in this area'. In some cases, it'll be different NGO groups. Say we were taking up the policy around environment, for example, you'll get groups like Forest and Bird and Greenpeace and others submitting their ideas.

"[It] doesn't mean they're affiliated or aligned to the Labour Party, doesn't mean they're necessarily going to support what comes out the other end of it, but the sensible thing in opposition is to go and talk to them, because they'll give you ideas, they'll give you evidence, they'll give you a perspective. [That] doesn't mean you have to accept it, but it does actually help, in opposition, to do those things ... but not only them. I want [MPs] to go and talk to people on the other end of that. So who are the people who are holding the consents, and what are their perspectives on it? And so, you know, let's make sure we're hearing all of the voices as we shape up the policy that we've got for the next election."

Reaching across the aisle

In America, they use the phrase 'reaching across the aisle' to describe working in a bipartisan fashion. I ask Hipkins whether he reaches out to the government on issues, and if they reach out to him.

"I've reached out to them on a few occasions, and certainly have on the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in State Care. And there'll be other areas where we do that, but it has to be based on the idea that we're actually going to try and find a compromise, not on the basis that, 'oh, the opposition will just have to sign up to whatever the government's doing'. You do want to try and provide some stability and some bipartisanship on areas that are longer term, if you can.

"So I look at the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in State Care. I think the whole country will be better off if we put aside our political differences and find a way forward that recognizes the survivors of abuse in state care and recognises what they need, and recognises how it was allowed to happen, and puts in place mechanisms to stop that happening again. Because that work is going to span more than one government.

"We're talking about decades already of work on this. Some of those survivors spent decades fighting for justice, and the fact that the Royal Commission has delivered its report doesn't mean it's over. In fact, it just means the next phase of that work begins.

"There are some areas around infrastructure where I think we're going to have to think about how we do that differently. We can't just chop and change infrastructure spending when there's a change of government, and that's going to require compromise on both sides.

"One of the challenges is [that] when the current government talk about that, they basically say, 'We want bipartisan consensus, just agree with everything we're doing and agree that you won't change it.' That's not realistic. But on the other hand, we would be willing to have a conversation that says, 'well, here's some stuff that you might not necessarily want to do as the government, but we think is important. And in exchange for you supporting those things, we will support some of the things that you want, and then people can just get on with it and get it done.'

"We're open to those kind of conversations, but bipartisanship is never going to be achieved by the side who's in government saying, 'just agree with everything that we're doing'. There has to be compromise."

RNZ's The House, with insights into parliament, legislation and issues, is made with funding from Parliament's Office of the Clerk.