17 Apr 2025

Mata Season 3 I Episode 7: Erica Stanford on the future of Māori education

From Mata with Mihingarangi Forbes , 7:00 pm on 17 April 2025

The Education Minister says there could be something for mainstream schools to learn from the Kura Kaupapa movement when it comes to a "really strong tie to families".

Speaking to Mata on RNZ, Erica Stanford said a big part of the Māori action plan in education was engaging with whānau.

"Because that's a really important key factor in outcomes to make sure that we're taking whānau and caregivers with us on this journey. "

Stanford told Mata's Mihingarangi Forbes the response to her curriculum refresh has been "overwhelmingly positive."

She's been celebrating the government move to, for the first time, fully provide math resources for the new curriculum entirely in English and Te Reo Māori.

"If we are serious about having closing the equity gap and having a bilingual education system, which we do, you have to equitably resource it."

Forbes questioned Stanford about other factors that were leading to an 'equity gap'.

Stanford said students aren't failing because they're Māori, she said "predominantly, they're failing because they are over represented in the poverty statistics."
 
"If you look at this country, there is a huge gap between those students who have the means and who are achieving and who don't and who are not achieving, that is the biggest driver. So there's a number of things we have to do."


Forbes pointed to students of Kura Kaupapa Māori and Māori medium education consistently delivering better results, which Stanford acknowledged.

Stanford said she'd looked at the NCEA results, digging into subjects like English, maths and science, to make sure they're doing "credits and in good subjects and getting really good results.'

She said this was due to a "number of things".

"The kura kaupapa movement has a really strong tie to families, and that's something I've been watching in the kura kaupapa movement going actually, there's probably something we need to learn here in the mainstream to make sure that we can implement some of those successful things that kura kaupapa do in the mainstream."

Stanford pointed out the two mediums have "quite a different philosophy" so "we're not going to be able to mirror it exactly."

When asked about a Waitangi Tribunal recommendation to implement a standalone Māori education authority, Stanford said it wasn't something she was looking at.

She also defended the decision to cut a Māori language course for teachers, to help pay for the resources and support for teachers to lift maths achievement.

An independent review into the Te Ahu o te Reo programme found it contributed to the Crown's strategy of language revitalisation.

Forbes referenced Rawiri Wright of Te Rūnanga Nui o Ngā Kura Kaupapa Māori who said introducing a Māori worldview into mainstream schools will lift achievement for Māori students, which is echoed by the Ministry of Education website, and asked whether cutting the course went against the Minister's own evidence.

Stanford said the evidence she was presented with showed there were no tangible outcomes from the course, whereas "structured literacy and structured maths have incredible outcomes for Māori students."

As a minister, she said, she had limited resources and had to "make decisions". When asked about an outcome from the independent report Forbes had read that showed a large majority of those surveyed said it enhanced their professional practice, the minister responded "they liked the free thing that they got."

"What you read this morning is all very well and nice, but what does it mean outcomes? It's not evidence of student outcomes."

The minister was also asked about Treaty Principles Bill which was defeated at its second reading last week, with National and New Zealand First voting against the bill, as they indicated they would.

Stanford - who was in the House for the debate - said it had been a "difficult period", and "tough for a lot of people".

"It was a really tough time, and it has caused division, and it's been unfortunate, and I'm pleased that it's over.

She said there are some wounds that will take a "while to heal", but she hopes the work she's doing in education to close equity gaps will help do that.

"I'm hoping in the work that I'm doing ... that people will see that unity and working together for shared outcomes and a shared vision of making sure all of our children, including tamariki Māori, achieving to the best of their abilities, will help heal some of those wounds."