Transcript
AMY FREW: Understandably the men don't feel like they're safe in Papua New Guinea. And I think the thing to remember as well is that these men came to Australia seeking safety and we've warehoused them for almost four years now on Manus Island. And these reports are really a concession of what we've known all along, that it's a dead end. The camps are not a solution. They do need to close. But the safety of these men must come first and they must be settled somewhere in safety.
BENJAMIN ROBINSON-DRAWBRIDGE: Do you think it's kind of under-handed for the people running these camps to effectively try to railroad people out of them?
AF: I think it's another symptom of the wider malaise which is the disregard that the Australian government has shown to these people for their humanity and their safety. And I think what we can see in these kind of tactics is pushing these men to make choices when they really have no choices. They've been there for four years now. If they could have gone home they would have gone home. If they could have settled in Papua New Guinea then I'm sure they would have settled in Papua New Guinea. So it's no good pushing against a door that just can't open. And I think that's what the Australian government needs to realise is that they need to take responsibility and bring the men to safety whether it's in Australia or in another safe third country.
BRD: Advocates like you and liberal media like me banging on about it really don't seem to be having any impact on the government's thinking on this. It seems that the men are going to be stuck in PNG forever.
AF: Well, I think we have seen a shifting in the policy. Originally when the camps opened and especially when Peter Dutton became Immigration Minister here, he had a very hard line that everyone would stay in PNG or go home. And we've seen a real concession I think in the last eight months now when they have found that third country option of the USA. we don't know many details about that yet, so we don't know when men will go, how many will go. but I think it's a very important concession from the government. The camps must be evacuated. But we are also really concerned with any suggestion that not all men will be resettled in safety and some will be left behind. And I think that's what these reports indicate. And also the reports we saw yesterday, about shutting certain compounds down within the RPC (regional processing centre).
BRD: Do you think it could actually even be better for the men to leave them in the centre rather than trying to move them into the community in Papua New Guinea?
AF: I think from what we know of the conditions in the centre, they are very abusive and very dangerous for the men. But I think what we need to see now is a solution that leads to a permanent option. And I think that's where it would be so terrific if people were able to be resettled in America. But we can't rely on Donald Trump and America to come in and do our dirty work for us. We need to be very careful and very clear, and take responsibility for these men who came to us seeking safety.